Sarah: Why did you pick this place, Broad Street?

Jared: Why did I pick this place? I’ve always been drawn to this building. I love the architecture. I’ve always loved the smells and the memories. They’re very powerful. I can honestly say it’s a building I’ve never had a bad memory in. It’s a very special place for me. My sister got her hair done right there for her wedding.

Sarah: Barnets?

Jared: Yeah. It’s a beauty salon. That’s where she got her hair done for her wedding. I used to live here in Jackson and work here in this building, and right downstairs used to be one of my favorite restaurants. It’s one of Jackson’s best places we have to offer. The businesses here is local and they treat their employees good. Every time come here, it’s always a great experience, so I figured it’d be a great place to come do this interview. It will add to the positive memories that I have here.

Sarah: Exactly. It’s another positive association.

Jared: This is my favorite place.

Sarah: You mentioned that you worked here. When was that?

Jared: Seventeen going on 18. It was right before I left to go to the coast. It was my last job in Jackson.

Sarah: How long were you in Jackson?

Jared: It was off and on throughout the years. It’s been an interesting little city. I know I came here in the eighth or ninth grade, left, came back, left again, came back, left, and now I’m back again. It’s been an interesting relationship that I have with the city. It always draws me back. I’ll always stay here for a little while, and then I’ll leave again. It’s a nice base of operations for me. I did a lot of coming to age and who I am today here.

Sarah: In this building or in Jackson?

Jared: In Jackson. I kissed my first boy in Jackson. I saw my first DJ gig here in Jackson. Jackson has the first gay club I have ever been to. I learned how to DJ in Jackson. It was the first place I ever made real friends.

Sarah: Why are those particular things positive associations for you? Many people have different things that resonate with them from their hometown. Why do you pick those particular things that are good from Jackson? You emphasized real friends as if you didn’t have true friends prior to moving to Jackson.

Jared: Yeah, I just never had the opportunity. I moved around a lot while growing up.

Sarah: I can only imagine with you mentioning the constant coming and going, coming and going from Jackson.

Jared: Yeah, exactly. Before moving here, I had probably been in a different city every year of my life, since I was seven years old. I was in Dallas, where I was born. Then, I left Dallas and bounced from place to place. Then, I moved to Jackson and stayed here for a little while.

Sarah: How’d you get from Dallas to Jackson?

Jared: Well, I was born in Dallas to my birth mother. There was a point in time in which she left for a few weeks, and no one knew where she was, so I was taken into state custody. After I was taken into state custody and moved around Texas a bit to various group homes, my aunt decided to take me in, my Aunt Brooke. I then moved to Iowa. Then, from Iowa I moved back to Texas back into the system. Then, my other aunt took me in, and by this time it was the seventh grade. I went to Montgomery Catholic Middle School.

Sarah: Here in Jackson?

Jared: No, in Montgomery, Alabama.

Sarah: Oh, duh. Of course. Sorry about that.

Jared: After that, my aunt decided she wanted to do juvenile justice work here in Jackson, Mississippi, and wanted to become more involved in the ACLU. That’s how I got here. I was starting the eighth grade. I transitioned to Terry High School and Memphis for ninth grade. After Memphis, I went to a boarding school in Bartlett. From Bartlett, I moved back to Jackson and stayed in a group home here in Jackson for about a year. This is now tenth grade. I then moved up to Greenville, Mississippi to live with my sister while she was finishing her Master’s in Education. When you’re in the teacher program you have to teach in one of the underperformance schools in the state, which is why I spent my eleventh grade year in Hollandale.  After that, we moved back to Jackson when my sister started teaching at Rowan Middle School, and that’s when I entered in Murrah High School. That’s when I started working here. After here, I moved down to and attended Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College where I met you. Like I said, it’s been an interesting back and forth. So, after finishing there and then going on to live on the MS Gulf Coast and then in Mobile, Alabama, I felt as if my life came full circle again and I’ve learned what I needed to learn while there, I’m back. It’s almost poetic now talking about my travels back and forth to this city constantly.

Sarah: Something just keeps bring you back, like those good associations?

Jared: Right. And, here I am. The city has been very receptive of my return. A lot of people are excited that I’m back, and I’m excited to work with the people here. I know that there are so many people in the city that want to do good. Ya know, fight the good fight? I want make in known that now that we’re in our mid-twenties and have voices and aren’t just children, we can actually make a positive difference here. There are so many people I’ve been talking to about making these positive differences, since we were roughly 15 and 16 years old. At lot have things have changed though. When I was 15, you couldn’t walk around the city holding the hand of someone with the same gender or many interracial couples openly engaging in their relationships in public, because there was still very much so a stigma against it. I feel like we hadn’t had the impact from Obama’s presidency yet. Now coming back, I can see the change and how eight years of progress and the impact it’s made just for this small area. You walk around and see LGBT people and interracial couples openly doing their thing, and it’s just beautiful. It’s just the beginning too! My friends and I have been talking about how we want to make it to the point where the kids who went to the schools we went to don’t have to be afraid to be themselves. They can be their true authentic selves in schools here, and feel safe and proud of who they are. That’s one thing I truly want to give back to this community and city before I leave Jackson again.

Sarah: Do you feel like you didn’t have that opportunity when you were here with your friends? I’m assuming the friends you’re mentioning are the ones who were here when you experienced your first kiss, DJ gig and such. I’m assuming it was prior to your move to the MS Gulf Coast.

Jared: Yes, I’m glad that it happened. By coming into my true self and then moving down to the coast, it allowed me to be myself for the first time.

Sarah: Moving down to the Gulf Coast?

Jared: Yes. Since day one, I was able to be myself and be open about it. I guess for me my thing is I wish others felt that way too. If-

*A friend of Jared walks up, briefly catches up with him while meeting me and leaves the strip mall*

Jared: If only they knew that I like all genders, and it’s okay. We exist. There are men in this world who are attracted to various genders, and we’re not confused. We’re not going through a phase. We’re not less than a straight man. We’re just as manly. For me, what I appreciate about the good people of Jackson, is for reminding me it’s okay to be who I am. This is a very come as you are city. That’s one thing about that Jackson swagger that I’ve always appreciated. It’s a city in which we like the authenticity here. We welcome it. The young people are at least more so come as you are, especially with our rave and hip hop culture. It’s really just, ”Be yourself. You ain’t gotta lie to hang.” That’s a saying that we had at our high school.

Sarah: I ain’t trying to be cool. *singing Chance the Rapper*

Jared: Exactly. I’m just trying to be me. Being able to take that from my first semester of college and removing the thumb of what the people who tried to raise me tried to tell me, like, “You’re going through a phase,” or, ”you’re confused,” was amazing. I would hear that a lot from my own family. Even, “Oh, you’re just being greedy.” That’s one thing I think bisexual people hear. We’re just greedy. That’s not the case. I’m a very sexual being, however I’m not greedy. I don’t need a bunch of lovers at the same time. I just come across people who I find attractive and am interested in getting to know. Another thing I really want to discuss, kind of getting back to the ‘If Only They Knew’ part: Just because someone is bisexual doesn’t mean they are any less loyal as a partner. It doesn’t mean that you have to worry more that they’ll cheat on you as opposed to a gay or straight person who is only attracted to one gender. One thing I’ve noticed personally, is that people may be afraid to date a bisexual, because they fear the huge competition pool. “Wow, this person is attracted to both genders, so I have to watch out for both guys and girls.” That’s very much not the case. I don’t the inklings to cheat on someone because of my sexual orientation. I’ve been cheated on before. It hurts. Being able to have compassion about that, I can understand when bisexual talks to me about how they fear from the heart that they sometimes will end up with someone with double the paranoia due to their gender. You know when the stereotypical heteronormative, insecure boyfriend fears when their girlfriend goes and hangs out with guys or vice versa? It’s double that situation when your bisexual partner goes and hangs out with pretty much anyone. One thing I wish people would understand that a friend can literally just be a friend. Again, back to Jackson, I’m really happy I found that truth about myself.

Sarah: Before or after Jackson?

Jared: Oh, before! Before my senior year of high school I was very much confused. I wondered if they were right. Was I just gay and wasn’t sure or didn’t know who I was? Am I straight and just curious? What’s going on? It was a very confusing time, especially with not a lot of representation of bisexuality in the media or movies or anything. There is now! Thank goodness. More bisexual people are coming out of the closet, and I think it’s very important if you’re bisexual and come out of the closet, because there are a lot of kids out there who have no idea. One thing I understand about other bisexuals is that it is very easy to remain in the closet. You can make all of your heteronormative relationships public and your homosexual ones private. It’s easy to remain in the closet. It bothers me, because it relates to that initial prejudice you mention with your project when people first meet you. The whole, do they like more or not like me. I, no qualms, am an openly bisexual man. Take it or leave it. For those who do want to get to know me or those who don’t fall on that gay or straight spectrum, but rather somewhere in the middle, remember that we are people too. We have emotions. Even though I’m a very sexual being, I can be hurt too.

Sarah: Of course. Definitely! They can’t limit you to a box and leave your emotions outside of it.

Jared: Exactly. But, they’ll try. And, that’s one thing I wish people would stop doing. Don’t put me or others in boxes. I wish we could get past the point of labels. I know they are important when you’re trying to figure out who you are need help figuring out where you fall and can claim as part of your identity, but I wish as a species we could get to the point where we don’t have to put a label. Sex is a natural thing. We’ve been doing this for a millennium. I think it was a Henry Rollins interview I was watching when he said, “There were gay cavemen. Dig that for a second.” A few tens of thousands of years ago, no one cared. There was a caveman that saw another come out of the bushes and was like, “Yo, what is do.” I mean come on. Not only that, but back in Rome and Greece… this isn’t a new thing. You’d think two thousand and something odd years later that we would have figured it out by now. But, what blows my mind is when I question why. But, then again, I always realize I will drive myself crazy if I constantly wonder why people don’t like me right off the back. It boils down to everyone having their own perspective, but I guess that’s everyone’s right.

Sarah: Do you feel you joining the LGBTQ community was a bit more hesitant than what it would have been if this thought process was a lot more open? I feel like the community in itself has its own boxes and oppresses its own people.

Jared: Yes! Yes, and I do want to talk about this.

Sarah: Well, you can talk about anything. Just because you said you’re If Only They Knew quote, doesn’t mean we have to stop. If something else comes out of it, by all means.

Jared: Yeah, we’re going somewhere. We’re about to address one of the elephants in the room in the LGBTQ community, and I’m so here for it. Sometimes, the LGBTQ community will make me feel less than, because I’m not gay. Some gay men will tell me that I’m confused. I also here from potential partners, “Oh, well Jared. You don’t seem bisexual. You just don’t know you’re completely gay yet.” I’m always having to say, ”Nah. No. I know what I like. I like it all. Just saying. I do. I like it all.” Throughout life, I’ll have people ask me, “Which gender do you like more?” I often find myself having to explain that I don’t like one more than the other. I don’t have a real preference. As far as the body counts concerned, I’ve had roughly as much sex with women than I have had with men. I’ve also found it interesting that some of my most pleasurable experiences has been with people whose gender lingers somewhere in the middle.

Sarah: More so fluid?

Jared: Yes, gender fluid people. Girls that are kind of boyishly charming. The Ellen Pages of the world: god bless them. Am I right?

Sarah: Amen.

Jared: Also, very feminine men. Just beautiful people in general. Oh, my goodness. I can find attractiveness in all of those. Masculine men and feminine men on top of the others I just mentioned. Everyone is beautiful. It’s something I wish people would just understand. Both the heteronormative and LGBTQ community. One thing that particularly bothers me the most about the LGBTQ community is, for some odd reason, gay men put this masculinity on a pedestal.

Sarah: Basically, seeing the patriarchy still seeping into that community as well.

Jared: Exactly. Yes. I’ve seen it on dating websites too. There is this saying going around the internet right now, “No blacks, no fems, no fats.”

Sarah: I haven’t heard that.

Jared: You can go to various gay dating apps, and you’ll see it. You can find prejudice and racism in the LGBTQ community, and no one wants to address it. It’s disgusting and makes a very large portion of the LGBTQ community feel very unvalued. Why put this value on the typical Adonis body type, blond hair blue eyes, white skin, and manly man? It’s a fantasy almost. It isn’t that real. I wish more people would understand that there is in beauty in your blacks, your fems, your quote on quote fat. I hate that word. I hate when other people call others fat. They’re beautiful just the way they are. That’s just the way their body is. Deal. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There ain’t nothing wrong with a little extra punch punch for the tush tush. It’s beautiful. Beauty comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. I don’t think the LGBT community will truly progress until we actually address these prejudices that our community experiences.

Sarah: I want to go back to you emphasizing how you hate when others call others fat. But, I feel that’s more of a beauty standard on top of sexist and racial prejudices. Is there a particular reason you pointed that one out?

Jared: Well, it’s something that I feel a lot of people don’t talk about. I’ve noticed amongst my LGBT friend who happen to have larger body frames. They say people say awful things to them on dating websites and in public. How they degrade their bodies. I myself used to be chunky man. I was three hundred and something pounds, and it wasn’t until 18 when I started to change my body. I honestly was a relatively happy chubby dude. But, I’m really happy now that there was such a push to not be hefty. I’m not changing my body for anyone else than myself, because I want to live a very long and healthy life. I want to reduce the cost of medical bills through proper dieting and exercise. That’s why I do it. But, a lot of people feel the pressure just so they can at least feel pretty. That’s bullshit.

Sarah: You mentioned for yourself, and how that was a key component to changing your lifestyle. Was that the same push you had when you started questioning your sexuality? Was it mostly for yourself or other factors such as religion or a particular relationship that helped you?

Jared: Um, I think it was a combination of both growing older and general experience. After turning 18, being on my own, moving to a completely different area where I had no family whatsoever, and then dating and talking to different genders, I eventually accumulated enough data for myself to realize, “Hm, I must really be bisexual then.” I know for a fact that there is no preference as far as Jared Bowie Milner is considered. “What is your type?” I don’t have one. I always come up with the mentality that, again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I come across many beautiful people, but something may strike me and then I will be attracted to that.

Sarah: It just happens.  

Jared: It just happens. It always just hits me like out of the blue. I’ll just start googling and being like, “Oh my gosh, you’re so cute. I just want to touch you.”

Sarah: You said getting experience and getting older, but that takes time.

Jared: It does take time. If your child and comes to you and is like, “I like girls and boys.” Do not tell them that they are going through a phase. Tell them, “Okay, sweetie. That’s interesting. I still support and love you no matter what.” Just be patient as they grow into their true selves. That’s what we’re all doing. We’re growing into who we’re meant to be. They will be confused at first. However, as they gain that experience and wisdom over time, they’ll feel more comfortable. I’m so happy that I’m now comfortable enough to tell people when they first meet me and ask, “Hey, are you gay, or what’s going on, because you seem different?” When most people first meet me, they can easily recognize that there is something about me that is different from what the society calls normal. Quote on quote normal. Quite frankly, I eat it up. I love it. Ask me. Please do. I love it. To me, normal and boring kind of go in the same category and concept. I don’t want to be boring. I’m glad my existence makes people question. Ask me! I’m happy to tell you. It’s a funny thing to see, especially people’s reactions.

Sarah: I bet reactions have played a huge role into your comfortability.

Jared: Oh, yes. Having positive reactions has very much so allowed me to be more proud of myself.

Sarah: That’s good. I’m glad you’ve had those experiences honestly. A lot of people don’t. I often hear of bad ones. Have you had any yourself?

Jared: Oh, most definitely. I have had quite a few bad experiences with people calling me stereotypical slurs that you might here towards the LGBT community. You have your fundamentalists and radical rights saying, “Oh, you’re going to burn in hell. Fire and burn stone, blah, blah, blah. You’re an abomination. Blah, Blah,Blah.” But, it doesn’t bother me anymore. Thank goodness, I know now that I am beautiful. I am just fine the way I am. There is a place for me here on this planet, and I deserved to be loved. I thank my lucky stars every day that those truths have revealed themselves to me. And, it’s something that in my time here in Jackson, I want to reach out to the young LGBT community. I want to tell them, “Yes, you are beautiful. You are worthy of love.”

Sarah: So, are you wanting to tell them something about their true selves before they even reach their true selves?

Jared: Yes, exactly. I could have saved a lot of time trying to figure these things out for myself. I think it’s something going forward that if we constantly do then the younger generation won’t have to go through the same pains we had to. I think this has been a trend too. When you talk to the older queens in the LGBT community, they will tell you that Stonewall actually happened. It wasn’t always this easy. They laid a lot of ground work. And, there is still a lot of groundwork to be laid. And, that’s something I’ve realized for someone who is only 24 and someone who falls on that LGBT spectrum that I want to see. There are still children out there who we must still fight for. We still have more paving the road to do. Hopefully, one day, in school around America, trans children, gay children, bisexual children, pansexual children, questioning children and many more won’t be afraid for just being themselves. That’s what I want to see. That’s the day I want to work towards. I want to work and see the day that children don’t have to be afraid just by being alive. Because, it’s something a person cannot change. It’s so gut wrenchingly painful to even imagine that even though I’m so happy and am in such a great place, that there was a time in my life where I was afraid just to go to school just for being.

Sarah: Here in Jackson or multiple schools?

Jared: It was in multiple places. In early 2000s it was not this easy. This is a very new thing. People didn’t even discuss bullying in schools until roughly Obama’s second term it feels like. The gracious first lady Obama went to schools around the country talking about these things. I’m so thankful it finally happened, but that was not the case in the 90s or early 2000s during my lifetime. This is still a new thing. We have this spark. And, during these times, it’s so important for us to kindle this fire. Speaking of fire and the flame, I myself am a little flamboyant. I am glad that even during those dark times when people tried to snuff out my flame, I was able to cultivate my own fire inside. Now it’s a raging furnace, and I want people to watch me forge some coal into some diamonds. Handle my business.

Sarah: What are some dark times you might say you’ve overcome, or coals you’ve already made to diamonds?

Jared: Terry High School. They were actually recently in the news. One day, I was walking in the courtyard, and four football players circled me. They just kept pushing me around into the circle. It was just an awful feeling. I kept wondering, “Why me?” Then, they started spitting out these awful names like, faggot, queer, and such.  Those were times where I was afraid to be myself. But, it wasn’t until I came to actual Jackson honestly it got better. Something about Jackson being a liberal stronghold here in the south I guess. We’ve been consistently blue for a long time. Even some of these adults weren’t so bad. I used to go to the ACLU after school and they would just accept me for who I was. It’s been a long time coming, but the dark times where definitely when I was afraid to be myself. It’s really hard to express what that feels like, because it’s so unnatural.

Sarah: It’s also very personal. You can even try, but I can’t fully understand, because it’s your story. It’s your experience. Not mine.

Jared: Mhmm. Being afraid to be yourself is very unnatural. It’s very hard to do and deal with, especially when you’re young. That’s when it happens the most in my opinion. And, they don’t know a lot about the world or have a lot of experiences to draw form to come to conclusions. So, that’s when you’re left in the dark. IT’s not until you kindle that flame inside you to enough light to shine through that darkness and find the truth. And, that truth is like I said earlier: you are beautiful. You are fine just the way you are. You are worthy of love. That’s the truth.

Sarah: Are you saying that’s the truth for you or for everyone?

Jared: I think that’s the truth for everyone to be honest. I think it’s the truth for everyone. The system as a whole is fear. It a part of the entire part of this system that generates this fear that you’re not beautiful. That you’re not worthy of love. That you’re not fine the way you are, because you’re different. It almost feels as if it’s designed that way so that people will consume products to make them feel better about themselves. Right?

Sarah: More normal.

Jared: More normal. If I buy these clothes. Maybe if I by this product. Maybe if I do this, I’ll be more popular, more people will like me, and I won’t feel so shitty. But, the fact of the matter is, you can have more money than God, and buy all of these things or be a Kardashian, I don’t know, and still be fucking miserable. The system is going to continually keep you in that state of fear until you figure out that truth that you are beautiful. You are fine just the way you are. You are worthy of love. Those three things. When you have those three pieces of knowledge, the system can’t fucking touch you. There’s not a single commercial that can make you feel any less about yourself when you know those three truths. That’s something I would like people to know.

Sarah: Everyone or just the LGBT community?

Jared: Everyone. It’s not just them. Yes, the LGBT community is very much a community I am a part of and protective of and sometimes want to help out the most, because we like a lot of other groups in this country who are oppressed. But, even for the people who aren’t oppressed, a lot of them don’t even know this truth. A lot of them don’t know that they are beautiful, fine just the way they are, and are deserving of love. And, in those groups, that aren’t oppressed, because of not feeling oppressed, it’s very difficult for them to understand that they do feel that way. Some of them have those same feelings and it’s hard for them to figure it out, because they aren’t oppressed I think to really grasp the struggle. Talked about this earlier, but to live is to struggle, but to find beauty in the struggle is to thrive. It comes with a suffering. I think it almost makes it easier for people who are oppressed to find those truths and to become very strong individuals. From darkness comes light. From the struggle comes greatness. Even from coal comes a diamond. How does a diamond form? From being compressed by a lot of pressure causes those carbon chains to form into a beautiful diamond. That’s what I see when I see the oppressed people of this country. I see diamonds.

Sarah: And potential diamonds.

Jared: Potential diamonds and the diamonds of people who are oppressed and break that barrier and become so great that their light within shines so bright that they affect the world every time they open their mouth. Your Beyonces.

Sarah: Shine bright like a diamond.

Jared: Yes, your Beyonces, Rhiannas, Chance the Rapper. Lil channo from 79. You know, this black boy grew up southside Chicago and so many people in his situation don’t even make it to 18. But, he had a fire and light in him that he realized was so powerful that he could use it to help illuminate the darkness for other people. I was so taken when he accepted his Grammy and thanked God. I clapped my hands and praised him for speaking the truth. Yes, just show people the goodness and light in the world.

Sarah: Do you feel like him and people like yourself are trying to show people that their truth is involved with God in a sense or just a light overall?

Jared: I think I don’t really like the term God. I really don’t like that term. I don’t even think our language is advanced enough to describe the phenomenon of divinity. Right? I feel like that spiritual experience that we’re all looking for and see across various cultures and religions.

Sarah: Faith?

Jared: I wouldn’t even say faith. I would say the feeling of connection. That’s where I think that elatedness comes from. You know, when you go into a church and everyone is singing and clapping and everyone feels lifted in a sense. They feel that sense of divinity together.

Sarah: That liberation.

Jared: That liberation. Exactly. We see it in churches, festivals in various cultures, and just that overall sense of community and overall being a part of something much larger than yourself. To me that is divinity. I think that is what we’re trying to define, but there is a language barrier. Again, I don’t think there is a human language advanced enough to communicate and describe the concept of God. I’m not here to preach to anybody about any certain kind of way. But, what I do feel is those three truths do lead you to a spiritual path. Once you discover those three truths, it’s very hard for you to not share them with other people who don’t quite know that truth yet. Because, when you see someone suffering, the more you open your heart to compassion, the more it hurts when you see someone who doesn’t know that they’re beautiful, or that they aren’t worthy of love. Again, nothing hurts me more than seeing someone who isn’t aware of how truly beautiful they are. It’s just a painful thing to watch. I’ve been there. It doesn’t cost me dime to tell someone that they’re beautiful. It doesn’t cost me a single dime to tell someone that they’re beautiful. You’d be amazed. You’d be amazed when you see someone down in that darkness and you just take five seconds to tell boy, girl, or they, “You’re beautiful.” See that smile.

Sarah: Like that girl earlier you complimented with her highlighter.

Jared: Yes! I told her that shit was on fleek. I didn’t cost me a damn dime.

Sarah: And just like every other person who maybe doesn’t have highlighter and doesn’t reach that beauty standard.

Jared: I feel like the fear we live in conditions people to do the opposite. To tear people down. To tell them that they’re ugly or less, only to feel better about themselves. But, I think to truly change and shift the paradigm, we have to do the opposite. We have to lift each other up, and I’m not talking about just our friends and family, but the people who are trying to bring us down. It’s okay. It’s super easy and doesn’t cost a dime. Just let people know, “You’re beautiful. You’re worthy of love. You’re fine just the way they are.”

Sarah: So, if you had the chance to tell people, whether it’s the authoritative people in the political system or the people down the street who don’t feel good enough, a relative, enemy or someone you don’t even know, what would you tell them?

Jared: As far as the three truths?

Sarah: Well, yeah. If only they knew something. It doesn’t have to be that either.

Jared: If only they knew… I’m going to take it back to the three truths, dude. If only they knew that they are beautiful. That they are worthy of love. And that they are fine just the way they are.

Sarah: You’re beautiful.

Jared: You’re beautiful, Sarah.

Sarah: You deserve love.

Jared: Love wins, am I right?!